Manual If Heaven Should Crack: The True Story of My Tragic American Family

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The Fourth of July is more than another day off from work. The national holiday is also a chance to celebrate America's independence in whatever way you. On Sunday, Taylor Swift set the internet ablaze talking about her latest feud with artist manager Scooter Braun and her former label head at Big Machine. Jake Gyllenhaal is on one this summer — in the best way. The actor is currently on an international tour to prove that he is one of the weirdest guys in. The entertainment world is still reeling from the big music industry drama this weekend, when Taylor Swift criticized talent manager Scooter Braun, who.

So it makes. Be honest. As celebrity after celebrity expressed their public support for Taylor Swift during her recent controversy with celebrity manager Scooter Braun. These thoughts and tendencies probably started coming to her early in life and were never addressed by those around her. That is too much pressure to put on anyone! She clearly cracked and did what she did. It was wrong, but the answers lie where no one wants to go: her past and her childhood and how she was raised to make her who she became.

You would have us believe that all neurotic and abusive parenting is meted out in identical fashion among millions of families. Since none of us know all the details I find it instructive to first examine the indisputable facts in order to get a feel for what transpired and for the likely causation of a tragedy. This article was valuable in that it gave a fairly thorough chronology of the events leading up to the crime and a background of the family dynamics. This is a facile and lazy take away from a tragedy like this.

Not all abused children are beaten. Psychological abuse can be much more damaging plus not all children are tough enough to come out of it unscathed. There is plenty of evidence to indicate that she was a victim of abuse but most commenters are more than willing to overlook the fact that parents are statistically far more likely to kill their children than the reverse scenario. A diseased mind does not always make rational decisions. Reactionary and unbalanced judgements are always revealing of deep character flaws.

Thanks for the warning. It has deeper and more traumatizing effects on a person than physical abuse does! Humans must experience failure to avoid failure. Allow me to give you my little story on my family, I think I am actually pretty lucky in a sense. Before my family went over the pond over here to Canada, I was one of those guys who gets 3rd in class every year. Not perfect, but not bad in a sense.

My sister was not so good back then, she is 2 years younger, and had trouble absorbing things. In HK, we have testings too as soon as we hit Grade 1, it was difficult for her. Her stigma turned into stress, she started to play tricks. I was the one who actually found out more about it and talked to my parents about it. My parents, naturally, got angry at her lies. Here is the difference, they stopped and THINK, they also looked at it beyond the fact that she lied, and eventually loosen their expectation for academics for both of us.

I could only hazard a guess: they know how messed up the stress is if it forced their 6 year old daughter to lie like that. My sister enjoyed the change of pace, and she excelled in her own way. This led to another set of problems with me who were used to be so competitive, and how I become the jaded person that I am today, but that is a lesson for another time. Point is, if anyone of them were to stop to think apart from what they see from their own eyes, and allow empathy as a guidance, we would not see stories like this.

Problem is, today, human beings are far too self-absorbed materially, and they lose sight of their true self and eventually become lost. Even had she not committed murder, I would not have trusted Jennifer as a person at all. Dishonesty is not an acceptable way to respond to adversity, and she only has herself to blame for her own failures. It is not okay to forge report cards and diplomas, fake your graduation and pretend to attend university. I find it difficult to empathize with someone who had such a loving mother, and an ultimately well-intentioned father. Her parents did not say go be an Engineer.

Neither did mine. Mine said pursue an education and study hard. If I didnt, they were there to bring me back on track. If your children want to go frolicking in the park because they dont know better and thats ok with you, then go ahead. I agree. I commented earlier for Karen to not use such cheap and immoral tactics to grab the attention of readers.

Unfortunately, her cheap response was to remove my comment. Good stuff, Karen. You are going to be one heck of a writer. YES, thank you for saying this. If she really wanted to escape her family that badly, it would be as simple as studying hard and asking to go to UBC or Waterloo. Given that her program of choice was Science, calculus was probably not even an entry requirement. Not much discussion here about the company she kept. Something was not right with these people.

Most of us would never even remotely condone such action. There are studies that indicate peer group has a much larger influence on actions than parental influence, once someone has become an adult. Equating the effects of emotional and psychological abuse with the impetus to kill is a logical fallacy, to say the least.

No one knows what really caused all this for sure, but people are all too quick to label Jennifer as a cold-hearted psycho who is now rotting in jail and is getting what she deserved, without actually trying to understand what motivated her and led to this unfortunate chain of events. You make a great point. But if a person had to resort to ordering a hit to get their parents out of their life and take money through the inheritance, I feel that is not the same case. I do feel for the pressures she had to go through, but a lot of us, myself included had to go through something similar.

Anyways, your response is very well put, and I have to respect that. The only way we, as human beings, can begin to make sense of such things is to look for cause and effect relationships. We want to make sense of things, we look for identifiable patterns. The reality is, these patterns and correlations are often an illusion. Sometimes there are no reasons. Good thing you voted for your own comment because no one else with intellectual integrity would agree with such an absurd statement.

Thank-you for complimenting my intellectual integrity, but why is my statement absurdist to you? To take the argument to the opposite extreme, if equating emotional and psychological abuse with the impetus to kill was a logical thing to do, than we could expect that homicide would be the likely and excused outcome in all cases of severe emotional and psychological abuse.

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It is not. One person suffers, and spreads caring. Another suffers and seeks help, Another suffers, and does nothing. And yet another suffers, and commits murder. To argue that emotional and psychological abuse is an impetus to kill, is a stigmatizing insult to every survivor of abuse who would never murder another soul. How do you really know? You believe what you do, most likely because it coincides with you worldview, and what you want to believe.

But I do think that the viewpoints you reference are not necessarily diametrically opposed. One can blame, and indeed hate what someone has done, while also recognizing them as a victim. Please re-read what I said, it is an argument against absolutism. If you have anything to share and reason, please do so. Ad-hominem attacks have no place here.

She was speaking generally about the effects of child abuse. You seem to have an extensive vocabulary, Adam, but few clues about context and even less ability with reading comprehension. You seem to be a classic example of how a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. I neve quoted Hina. Please do not misrepresent what I wrote. Seriously, what does it take to get a user banned around here? Thank you for proving my contention that you have poor reading comprehension, Adam. I never said you quoted Hina.

You replied to her statement with an absurd non sequitur. Agree with Adam Catalyst. For someone who is calling out others for labelling Jennifer too quickly, you are doing the exact same thing labelling her family and assuming that the way she was raised was the cause for what happened. How are you arriving to these conclusions? What is with all these assumptions? From all your comments so far it really just comes across as if you are you projecting your own experiences onto this story.

Where did I say that I was raised like this, or in any way similar to this? You seem more upset that I am trying to show some sympathy towards her and what she MAY have experienced, but are totally okay with the rest of the people who are outright condemning her and calling her a monster. Btw, did you go to waterloo for afm in the last year? I think I might have met you. I agree that this article is biased. Whatever, you must know best I guess.

Exactly I completely agree with you. Thank you for providing the additional insight I missed. When you failed to acknowledge your poor reading comprehension I wrote you off as a pseudointellectual coward.


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Keep up the bad work. Jennifer is a person that was pushed too hard and cracked. When did it really every matter? She was viewed as never good enough. Catch them when they fall, brush them off and try again. There seems to be a lack of love and affection in the family. I understand culture may play a large roll in this. The only thing to affection was from Daniel, from the day of her asthma attack that…..

That was all she had as hope, as future, and Daniel was her heart. When someone cuts them self its not to see if they bleed, its to feel something anything. Does she have mental problems? Yea for a long time she has suffered silently. The lies were a fantasy of the life her family want her to be. But what did Jennifer ever really want……not to kill her parents…. But to be free…to be loved……to be seen as a daughter not a trophy.

When was she ever happy? The moment when all the lies came clean and the family saw her for the first time as a child, that didnt live up to there expections and was then was asked to leave. She was exiled from the family that day, this was the day…. They had lived there lives through her, without disappointment. No life sentences could justify any of this in any way. Does the crime fit the punishment? Does Jennifer walk the halls of her penitentiary in sadness and sorrow and shame?

No that would of been her life at home…. Well sometimes you need to be careful what you wish for.. I would even assume it was more. I had a friend in high school who was in a similar situation. It never escalated this far, obviously, but it got to a point where the girl ran away from home to live with her boyfriend because her dad found drugs not for the first time in her room. This is all on her.

We will never know. The dad lost his love, his family, his everything. His life is literally ruined. Cold blooded murder. They deserve the sentence that was rightfully given to each and every one of them. Life sentence is a good way to think about the crap they pulled.

Murdering your parents in cold blood is unforgivable. Any murder is unforgivable. Bich was probably the most innocent one, if you can call it that but she was the one killed. Jennifer failed to see that because she was so caught up in her own little self-hate and life. Yes, I agree. I understand your point though. How could you not trust her? Nobody knew. She was manipulative and apparently lied about everything.. I sat next to her every day in high school, She was in my TA and I had no clue who she really was or what she was capable of. This shit haunts me, knowing how close I was to her..

Daniel should have never been a part of that. He was nothing but a puppet on a string who got manipulated. He was honestly the nicest guy I knew in high school. I miss him. Its a shame he got sucked into her bs. She personally asked me over fb for an inside scoop on what I knew about her, but i never replied. So, I gather she got information from mutual friends.

Clearly no one listened to what the brother had to say. If anyone paid attention to his testimony they would know he felt that defence was painting a fictitious story. He clearly states that the family was based on trust and trusting Jennifer was what let it go so far. I loved that guy like a brother in high school. He was so nice.. Always smiling, laughing, cracking jokes, lighting joints… Man, I miss you. Its clear to see she cut herself for attention. She used to flirt with me over MSN. How she wanted to.. You know. I think it was all a cry for attention.

She got what she wanted. I never even knew they had a thing, as close as I was to the two.. Honestly, you would have never guessed. She was somewhat quiet in person, but smiled a lot. I always thought she was very bright with a lot of promise in her studies.. Kept to herself really. Except this one kid who sat on the other side of her. I think his name was Alex. I always thought they were related.. We actually used to flirt back and forth with one another. I smoked a lot of pot in high school. Lol Daniel on the other hand. We were very close friends. Hung out every day.

She must have had him on a string because he was never like that.. I guess ppl will do anything for a buck.. I even feel bad saying that because I truly respected him and loved him like a brother. Just a shame. I still talk to his bro, but could never ask… :. Sorry to hear that. She said some people believe that the parents are to blame, and quoted a friend. Really unclear how that is biased or not credible.

It takes evil to commit evil deed. Who pushed them to strive for their life? Who would they blame when things go wrong? It was so much easier for Jennifer to blame her parents rather than to admit her wrong doing. She deceived her parents and her friends because she was too coward to accept reality and had too much pride to start again. It is not difficult to blame others, it is just difficult to blame one self.

Few have mentioned it was not out of a blue that Jennifer decided to kill her parents and I agreed-it was an intricate art of deception and lies, which required time and effort to manifest. Simply put, her motives were excuses to cover up her failures. All murderers have motives, even psychopaths too-kill for pleasure or whatever reasons they deem fit. However, motives should not be used to justify an evil deed. I did not take my frustration out on others. There are many people out there who were in a similar boat as Jennifer or possibly worse, but they did not grow up to be murderers, or at least not all of them, including me or my friends.

For those who think your parents are cruel for treating you the way they do, know this, you are much crueler for treating them the way you do because you are their children and you have not or might never be able to do anything for them like the way they have done for you.

Some might agree or disagree with me, but reality is set and we can all choose to be another Jennifer, or we can choose to improve ourselves and see the goods in our parents because one day some of us might become parents too. Pan evidently did not have. This reminds me of the recent American case of Mr. Hassan Razzaq, who along with his siblings and mother was heavily abused at the hands of his father. Congratulations to Karen for repeating what the defence said. Good thing the jury listens to both sides of the story.

Because what the defendants said must all be true. Explain to me this. How do you lie and deceive such controlling parents for so long? She was given no freedoms but was able to go out and do all these things? She was locked away but magically was able to spend time with her boyfriend. How is any of this possible. There are so many loop holes in your story. Lets completely ignore the fact that her friend Daniel was a convicted drug dealer. Oh know, Karen knows him well so that makes this not his fault. Mutual friends are still the same side of the story.

They wanted the best thing for themselves. A trophy child. We and they know that the best thing for a child is to be happy. These parents were awful. Selfish reasons? Her parents forbid it. She easily could of finished her high school degree if her parents would have supported her instead of ordered her around. She is to blame for the murders but her parents are to blame for making her even consider it. I agree that the family did not help matters with this girl.


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But her actions clearly show that of someone who was a sociopath. When I used to cut myself or want to it was a cry for attention. Its something a lot of kids do. Kids crave attention. She just wanted someone to notice her… Make sense? Do you have first hand experience? I think it is excessive when situated in a new country where the majority of her peers are not treated that way by their parents.

I see both sides but I am opposed to extreme view points except in the case of a serial killer that murders in cold blood. Good point! Certainly something I struggle with — overanalysis due to fear of making mistakes something left over from my own upbrining. Safe to assume. Ppl want to forget. I know Daniels brother, but I would never ask him about it..

Everyone has different breaking points. I dunno what the science pre-reqs are these days…but note, she was born in — I belong to her cohort and for entry into University Science programs, Calculus was definitely a requirement. It was only a few years after I graduated when I heard they were dropping Calc as a pre-req…which in my opinion, dumbed down the education.

Well, like you said, this was a piece written with biases that we all have. I think it did its job of sparking a conversation around issues of interest in this story line — as evidenced by the commentary. Meh, I prefer the public have chances to gain new words in their vocabulary. Writing styles and preferences are subjective. I enjoyed her pace and style just fine. In fact, as we got to know each other better, we kept the blade in a beautiful Moroccan inlaid box, by the side of the bed. I agree with most of everything you say here.

In my case, my parents were similar here — I had a tiger mom, and an absentee father who when present was also abusive. My own development had been quite different from my brother — he had a lot more behavioural issues because his tolerance for abuse is quite low, and honestly, I think people forget that the brain continues to mature well into the 20s — especially the logical centres in the frontal lobe region.

He my brother had a lot more issues similar to Jennifer here with the deception and lies that he spun with my family and friends — but fortunately, he was quite poor at it. Before that he blamed everyone else and never examined himself…and then slowly the ability to self-examine trickled in. I think it is correct to say that we all have a choice — but our ability to take the different choice can be a bit of an illusion depending on so many different factors age, development, severity of personal trauma due to past experiences.

I used to wonder why my brother and I differed so much in the same environment of abuse, but honestly in retrospect, there were so many factors, and many of which were not really in his control. I hope my comment widens your considerations a bit, but the world is really not black and white. IT IS. And when you are abused for decades bad shit eventually happens. To the abusers, the abusee, to the new relationships formed by the abusee.

Could you also provide a list of cultures with dysfunctional child raising practices that leads to homocide causing abuse? It would be helpful to know who potential killers are by the color of their skin. I find it interesting that not even her lawyer thought that an argument could be made for her actions as a result of abuse, or duress. It seems from this article that Jennifer carried on elaborate lies for years thoughout her life… Is it not possible her unproven allegations of abuse were also a lie? She is despicable.

To completely fabricate your world and show it to your parents and keep that up for several years? And then try to kill them? How do you LIVE with yourself? Well the ending is pretty much predictable; suicide, murder, runaway, or live up to it as long as she can. She is 24 for god sake. Way pass legal age and yet still imprisoned in her own house.

If it were under normal circumstances, the parents could be charged. Too bad, one wrong turn and bad decision making from the girl, it all went haywire. Rather than sympathy or judgements, what happened happened. Learn from it is what i can say. If you want a child to be your trophy, why not just be a throphy yourself. If you are stressed up, talk to your parents or just ignore it and live as you want. But I do have to wonder…this is the web, not a class in the nomenclature of punctuation…. All posts are projections, bobsmith i. Hina seems to me to be doing a really good job around her own awareness, and is shading her posts with nuance, and understanding….

No style manual, ever, has called them this, and stylizing your brackets as round would be misleading in langauges, and disastrous if you worked in STEM fields. I would double check your source on that. I bring this up with you only because you are claiming the contrary as fact.

I mean no insult. He was rudely insulting my reading comprehension skills since I did not recognize that using parenthesis was the same as bracketing, and that in either case this changed the meaning of his words. If you re-read what he wrote, it does not change the unintentional meaning of what he wrote. Thank you. It is clear that she was a sociopath bud. And maybe one day you can have a sociopath for a daughter and have sympathy for her when she tries to murder you too.

And, you simply have neither the diagnostic not clinical experience to state that anyone is a sociopath…. But, I already have a daughter, one who is being brought up with unconditional love and practical and emotional support. Oh crap? Oh man, I am so sorry. Oh man I take back everything I said. I know nothing jon snow. If you ever look into psychology or sociology they do studies and tests and dig deeper into things like this to provide statistics. The reason why these serial killers all posses extremely similar back stories is clearly becauee all the events and similarities are factors that lead them up to the point where they wanted to kill a lot of people.

Is it the parents fault? No one person I to blame for any of the events that occurred, the blame lies evenly with many parties involved. Keep spinning little catalyst. Your pretentious web is providing much amusement. You argue this repeatedly, name calling someone who would argue against your assertion with proof that you cannot refute with a single dictionary, language authority, or even corroborated by a single human being other than yourself, and a non-extant Wikipedia citation that you hold up as proof.

OK, you win. APA is wrong. MLA is wrong. Science is wrong. Technology is wrong, Engineering is wrong. Math is wrong. You win. You successfully learned nothing, despite my best efforts. Please leave me alone now. I concede that I was wrong, and that brackets and parenthesis are the same thing, and that bracketing is a commonly understood verb that means to place text in parenthesis. I will not argue anything to the contrary.

You are a boorish, pedantic nag with a rigid mind, much of which gets fired up by your undue sensitivity. Why is that a bad thing? Is there something in your one weekend course of psychotherapy that says that is bad? But maybe it was not self-stimulation that created the effect in you…other things can have the same impact e. Yes, you are right. Please leave me alone now, any further attacks will be considered harassment.

Thanks Hina. This article has stirred up some deep seated issues for many posting here. I had a privileged upbringing with loving parents and now live in the paradise of the Gulf Islands in BC. I followed my bliss and have a culture related business in Europe. However I have struggled to have empathy for others and only in recent years have I developed a keener sense for what makes people tick.

This is essential for understanding what is behind the actions of others. The big picture take away from this tragedy is that striving for material success and status in the community has become more important than striving for personal and spiritual fulfillment. In no way is this disturbing trend an Asian or recent immigrant thing. This sets the tone and creates an environment where material success trumps our most basic sense of decency. Winning becomes the only thing and children are not allowed to be children.

Thanks for providing another example of your lack of intellectual integrity. My mother was the coldest, the harshest, the most eager to push me to my limits just so I could be competitive with the children of her prestigious friends. What we absorb during our formative years affects us all differently. Two children growing up in the same household under similar stimulus — say, twins, or siblings close in age — may exhibit completely different reactions, and develop completely different coping mechanisms.

Even children who grew up in relatively low pressure, nurturing families can get into the wrong friends circle or experience some other outside stimulus, and turn out just like Jennifer did. Why are teenagers encouraged to not have sex? High pressure discipline, especially physical discipline, is much the same in terms of its emotional impact. Those who manage to turn out fine, with no psychological scars, are the exception, not the rule.

Now, in my mid-twenties, I have virtually no grievances left with my parents. But the possibility that Todd simply can't figure it out is ignored. But the answer to this question is simple: you keep looking. Worst of all, the evidence that the movie and book presents as convincing is actually not at all.

And the reason it's not is all Todd's fault. As anyone familiar with such situations knows, investigations into these kinds of occurrences have to be very carefully managed and controlled. Without such controls the evidence is highly suspect and is very easily explained away. But Todd is not careful in his investigation of Colton's experience at all; as a result there are very obvious explanations for the things Todd considers inexplicable.

And to understand why, you only need to know the story of Clever Hans. Clever Hans was a horse that supposedly could do math and answer questions by clomping out numbers and letters. Investigation revealed, however, that it was a farce. It was not an intentional hoax—Clever Hans's owner did not set out to deceive anyone. Clever Hans had simply learned to stop clomping when his owner, or other experimenters, unwittingly gave slight physical clues that revealed their expectation or hope that Hans was about to stop clomping.

As Hans approached the right answer, they would tense up or lean forward, and Hans would simply stop and expect his reward. The phenomenon of unconscious signaling and other ways to silently transfer information, whether knowingly or not is well known among experimenters.

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In fact, experiments have actually shown that it exists. In one experiment, the same collection of head shots were given to different experimenters whose job it was to simply show the photographs to subjects who would rate them according to attractiveness. Some experimenters were promised more money if their subjects rated certain photographs higher different experimenters were told to favor different photographs — and lo and behold, that's the result that they got.

See Schick , Chapter 4. Most often, if an experimenter is asking a subject a question, the experimenter cannot know the answer to the question or the answer that is expected. In addition, the question or inquiry cannot be framed in a leading way. This is the basic approach of a police lineup—and many argue that even they are not careful enough. In the book Todd says he was careful not to intentionally feed Colton information. But just a cursory reading shows that Todd took absolutely none of the necessary precautions to guard against unconscious signaling.

For example, when Todd learns that Colton saw people with swords in heaven…. At that, Colton's smile melted into a dejected frown, and his shoulders slumped toward the floor. But Jesus wouldn't let me have one. He said I'd be too dangerous. When Todd wonders whether or not Colton really saw Pop, he shows him a picture of Pop.

This makes all the evidence these instances present completely worthless. But what about Colton seeing his miscarried sister in heaven? How could he have known about that — his parents didn't tell him, right? For one thing, the evidence is not as remarkable as it seems. For one thing, we have no good evidence that his parents didn't tell him. Page By all measures, I probably should have hated it. Not only does it make all the basic logical mistakes I describe above, and considers clearly faulty evidence reasonable, but it encourages credulity in other ways as well.

You're encouraged to think that the mere fact that Colton's recovery was preceded by prayer entails that Colton's recovery was caused by prayer. This is the causal fallacy—correlation does not entail causation. At one point it observes that God calls Christians to believe like children. This is one reason I think the movie is better than the book; in real life, it seems that Colton's parents believed every bit of his story from day one.

One parishioner even disparages Todd for seeming to be the kind of Christian that just "takes the brains out of their heads and just showcases how hard they can believe. Does god love him? And unless the Todd of the movie rejects the notion that God loves everyone, that makes him a universalist. He thinks everyone is going to heaven—not exactly a conservative talking point. Further, in the first sermon of the movie, the Todd of the movie tells the story of a lion being protected by a unicorn and a bear in a cave.

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The bear and unicorn say that of all the deaths they could've died, they would prefer to die protecting the lion. Todd draws an analogy with Jesus willingly dying on the cross. He admits that some people don't believe the Jesus story any more than they believe the lion story, but then he says that he believes them both — he thinks they are both true. Wait, what!? So unless he thinks his single use of the word "true" means two totally different things at exactly the same time which is not a charitable interpretation , it seems that what Todd means is that he believes that both stories are what Bart Ehrman would call "mythically true.

Lord of the Rings , for example, is not literally true but contains truths about the value of friendship and fighting evil. This is actually a fairly liberal view that some people embrace. They don't think the stories about Jesus are a literal historical fact — they don't believe that he performed miracles and literally rose from the dead — but they believe the stories told about him contain meaningful ethical truths that resonate with us. Again, not a conservative talking point. And although it doesn't seem that the real world Todd Burpo believes that, or in universalism, that seems the most charitable way to interpret the movie.

And in the end, it's not even clear whether the Todd of the movie really believes that Colton literally saw heaven. In the final sermon of the movie he says that he thinks Colton saw heaven, but immediately follows that statement by observing something like "Why not? Obviously, if he thinks that Colton's vision is analogous, then Todd doesn't believe that Colton literally saw heaven. At best, he thinks Colton had a dream that depicted what heaven was like. In my view, that made the movie not terrible. Kyle's book, The Myths that Stole Christmas , is now available for pre-order.

I suspect there was careful consideration about which parts of Colton's hallucinations to include and which to leave out. The concern being that anything too trippy or potentially controversial or even blasphemous would cause audiences to say, "What the? As a Christian I'm confused and don't know if I was follow the right religion. How does the evidence of life on earth millions of years ago equate with the Bible claim that God created life on earth recently by comparison?

Starting with a deep commitment to the inerrancy of God's Word, has calculated a span of just a few thousand years, most likely close to years, since creation. Adam was created on day 6, so there were five days before him. If we add up the dates from Adam to Abraham, we get about 2, years, using the Masoretic Hebrew text of Genesis 5 and Historians date Abraham's biblical story around B. The existence of heaven can never be 'proven' but if you think that the NDE has been adequately explained you need to actually read some of the literature. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I've studied NDE for 35 years and the evidence is strongly pointing to mind and brain being separate. No, the pro-nde research is just as poorly controlled as Todd's, and fails to take basic scientific facts into account. For example, they fail to recognize that brain monitors only register activity in the outer correct and that interior brain functions, like hearing, can function long after brain monitors go flat.

There is not one confirmed case where all brain activity was completely confirmed to have stopped and then a neutral observer who knew nothing about the case asked non leading questions to reveal the existqnce of experiences that could have only occurred in the absence of brain activity. Even if there was, it would take thousands of such cases to overturn the vast evidence in the literature that the mental is dependent on brain activity. Add to that the fact that all elements of ndes can be easily explained by what happens to the brain when it shuts down.

Specific Endorphins explains the uephoria, activity in th angular gyrus explains the floating out of body sensation. Clearly "what the brain does as it shuts down" is the most scientifically adequate explanation. I know you say that you have studied it for years and you say it's real, but people say the same thing about ufos, and ghosts, And when you look at their "overwhelming evidence" you see the most basic mistakes in reasoning and experimentation. I say this not to convince you, because I know there is no convincing you, but to challenge those interestedif someone claims to have such evidence, look for the scientific mistakes they are usually easy to spot and find someone skeptical who has looked at it and wrote on it.

The pro nde evidence will be underwhelming. I'm afraid your post contains many inaccuracies. I will leave aside your contention about EEG being a poor method of detecting brain activity. It is a very good method but very few NDE's have been reported whilst the patient was hooked up to monitors.

One case however is that of Pam Reynolds who was subject to cardiac standstill to have an aneurysm removed from the base of her brain. Sceptics have correctly pointed out that her observations did not occur during standstill heart stopped blood drained from body Therefore he does not have a conventional explanation for what occurred. So here is the case that you said doesn't exist and there are more, trust me.

I don't know what the significance of asking a neutral observer would have in this case. Spetzler is not bible pusher. You're explanations for the various elements of NDE are rather outdated, I'm afraid. They were crude attempts by psychologists such as Blackmore to account for these experiences but there is no evidence at all to support them.

When a person suffers cardiac arrest, they lose consciousness in an instant and after seconds all brain activity ceases therefore there should be zero going on in the brain. Van Lommel I find it slightly amusing that you have such faith in the opinion of sceptics on this matter. I find them to be rigidly closed minded, poorly informed and often unaware of the amount of evidence out there. For many it has given them hope for eternal life. To me, this is a far too important a subject to put my hope in a little boy's experience.

I wanted to see what God had to say so I went to the Bible. I have written a Bible study about heaven. I would be delighted to send you a free copy. Email me at heaven. If you have only seen the movie, I would suggest you read the book. The movie changed somethings, add things that did not happen and left out some great material.

A nice even discussion which takes into account the problems of the story's claim, yet still leaves the reader with some choice. And I agree, not a terrible movie a director can only do so much with two hours allotted. Later in the article it is claimed that given the story is accurate Colton as a small child probably heard about his mother's miscarriage in some indirect way, prior to his experience in the hospital, and then remembered that fact, after not speaking of it for an even longer period of time, and then including it in his recount of the Hospital experience memory.

I believe the arguments are inconsistent with each other. I suppose one could argue that news of a miscarriage even if a small child heard that word and knew the definition would be somewhat especially memorable, however, an experience such as the one described would probably be classified as especially memorable as well and thus would be more reliable. What psychologists attempt to explain without knowledge is how these types of things would occur without eluding to the existence of our Father. Is heaven for real? The answer quite simply is Yes it is.

Only those who have been contacted and who have experienced the same things Colton Burpo did, can understand this. Physiologists who have never experienced this, simply have no clue as to what occurred nor how it occurred. The first thing to understand about humans is that their body is temporary as stated by Paul in 1st Corinthians Each one of us as a soul and that soul resides in one of two bodies. I have had them and others I know have had them. Usually they are described as one looking down on themselves from the corner of the ceiling and seeing themselves below.

This event can be brought about by an extremely relaxed state, those who practice yoga often indicate the occurrence of this condition. Further, there are thousands of documented cases of people physically dying and returning to describe the same conditions young Mr Burpo described. People fail to understand the human event and life when they attempt to cram everything into one earth event or eon of time, when factually there are three as defined by the Apostle Peter 2nd Peter chapter 3.

There was an event katabolle in Greek , which caused that world to be destroyed by flood and this one to be created for the temporary flesh man Jeremiah and Genesis 6. All souls who choose to be born of woman, will go through the flesh and have free will to make choices, those choices are your works upon which each soul is judged Revelation Colton Burpo, the young man, saw visions.

It always happens this way with our father as he never chooses those who assume are the most dissevering Pope, Evangelists, etc , he instead chooses one such as Colton, because he knows their soul. Try as they might all of the so called experts can never explain the level of detail provided by a child of less than 5 years of age nor can the medical community explain the birth of a child decades after menopause. Our Father makes these things beyond their comprehension on purpose, so they have no other credible explanation. Hey, all these books are scams and you were scammed. I know, it's horrible, but the Heaven Tourism craze is just a way that Sony Pictures and publishers can get you to buy books and pay for movies.

Sony Pictures is a Japanese company run by people who aren't Christian. And Advent Books has been in so much trouble for being shown to publish ghostwritten hoaxes. Your faith is just that, faith. And it's good that you have it. But you shouldn't need a charlatan to affirm that faith. Just know what's in your heart and stopped giving these con artists your hard earned money. I appreciate the civility of this discussion and respect the beliefs of others. However I am thankful to Mr Sikes for his comments on this subject. I prefer to believe I will someday see my dear sister who I lost when she was 45 37 years ago.

Why would I not choose that rather than nothingness. I always knew when someone was there by the behavior of the client. I believe who comes and how it all plays out for an individual is based on life experience though that does not mean it isn't real. Colton's book renewed my faith and Mr. Sikes reinforced my beliefs.

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Thank you for these postings and thank you Mr. Sikes for your explanation. How closed minded you are that there is no possibility of spiritual encounters - always labeling any event like this hallucinations. And a person doesn't need to leave their body or be unconscious to experience such encounters. I've had 3 events in my life, and one of those was specifically with heaven, whilst awake, middle of day, no stimulus, no drug, not even inviting it.

I've mentioned it over the years to friends, and every so often I come across a person who also has had an extraordinary experience that they also keep to themselves, fearing ridicule just like you are doing through your psycho-logical analysis. People like you are the very reason why people like me keep what we experience secret. Only trusting close people. My wish is for you to experience a stark encounter one day, outside of yourself, and that it shakes you to the core, then you can either keep it inside you forever, knowing you have altered knowledge you cannot express to others; or tell people only to be ridiculed like the rest of us.

That's my wish for you. You deserve the uncomfortability of suppression for the damage you do to others with your cynicism. I'm guessing if you had lived in the 's, you would have been a strong advocate for saying it would be impossible for people to speak to each other across the airways using a device on the other side of the world, because it was beyond the knowledge of the time and your frame of reference!

You don't prove hallucinations, but you so freely claim it to be fact about this child's experience. To have an opinion is fair; to bring down another's experience without solid evidence is unprofessional. Try broadening your frame of reference in what might be possible.

War in Heaven! Satan is at war against God and mankind.

But the scientific community have the right to analyze what they see and interpret how they think. How else can we explain proof of millions of years and other impossible to prove claims. It seems to me that Mr. Johnson has violated a basic premise of the scientific method by inserting confirmation bias.

He already had his mind made up that Heaven is not for real, before he began his "unbiased" logical discussion. With respect, the author limits her thinking in the same way she criticizes those who are not "rational adults. So the analysis is necessarily limited to the boundaries of human knowledge.